Telegram Archive - week 22, 2026, page 1

- 22 minutes read - 4622 words

participant-1522, 7:22 AM, May 27

Hate to break it to you man but literally the whole country is like this. There is no safe haven in this country anymore. The best you can do is find the state that wants to steal the least amount of your shit and take a stand there and make the best out of it. And that’s exactly what Texas is.

participant-4603, 7:24 AM, May 27

You’ve got to be kidding me? It’s like this in the other 49? That’s insane. Yikes!

participant-1522, 7:28 AM, May 27

Oh yeah man. Well think about it. What REALLY happened here? Why didn’t the police officer tell who ever told him to arrest her to get fucked? Why did he obey? Just another “following orders” man.

The whole country is like this now. All these old people take over these positions are just sheep followers. “Doing my job”. “Following the law”. It’s everywhere.

participant-1522, 7:29 AM, May 27

Americas been dead for a LONG time. The people who Clint Eastwood pretended to be in his western films are dead and gone and it’s been that way for quite a while

participant-4603, 7:32 AM, May 27

This is something I remember my father telling me he disliked about the States several decades ago: “Americans are becoming a nation of informants and informers.” Drawing analogies and comparisons to East Berlin and their predecessors if you get my drift without being too hyperbolic. This was pre-plandemic, mind you. Because you’re exactly right - if anything, shouldn’t the police officer have made a citizen’s arrest of his superior for an unlawful attempted arrest, detention or kidnapping - whichever term is most accurate? I’m not being hyperbolic about this.

I’m still waking up, so my mind is a little fuzzy as to the precise terms. But good grief, this is no good at all. What has changed? Americans weren’t always like this, I don’t think, or were they?

participant-4603, 7:34 AM, May 27

I want to believe in a America full of Clint Eastwoods and John Waynes.

participant-1522, 7:44 AM, May 27

No. My thinking of what happened was at the end of the 1800’s when public education started being a big thing being pushed that’s when the conformity started happening.

participant-1522, 7:48 AM, May 27

Nope. Haven’t met a single one. Not one I admired.

You might meet someone who SEEMS on the outside to be the Clint Eastwood character but once you actually meet them and talk to them you know they aren’t.

My grandfather used to be a person who I thought was growing up. But now that I’m older and actually met him as an equal and have talked to him and see what he really thinks. Or rather doesn’t think. It’s just a show.

participant-4603, 7:51 AM, May 27

Indeed, the old Prussian system, right. There definitely needs to be a separation of education from the state.

participant-4603, 7:53 AM, May 27

America’s detractors will be quick to point out that it’s all Hollywood and it’s all marketing. It’s all propaganda, and there’s likely some truth to it. Then again, one of America’s greatest assets and strengths has been its culture, at least in the past. If America is no longer cool, that’s a massive issue. People all around the world used to want to become American.

participant-1522, 8:00 AM, May 27

Americas IDEA will always be cool. But it’s just that nobody wants to actually live by that idea. And say “I” want to be that way. “I” want to be Clint Eastwood.

I bet these Asian fucks from Japan and shit come over here like it’s a fucking petting zoo hoping to see “somebody else” embodying the ideal which they thought was cool. Without ever doing it themselves.

participant-4603, 8:10 AM, May 27

Without putting anyone else down, I do not think young people worldwide are crying out at night wishing and hoping they could become Chinese or Indian or Russian or even French or Italian, if you get my point.

Italian, who knows, it could be possible. The French, a long time ago, I suppose; why not? Someday in the future, Brazilian or Mexican, I guess. But America has that cool factor and cultural edge. It’s almost as important and strategic as its ICBMs. Ozzy Osbourne, I know, was British, but the likes of him and Metallica did a lot to tear down the wall.

participant-1522, 8:16 AM, May 27

America lives by inertia. Those people of the past who actually did it versus the people today who only hold it as an idea that they never act on. And then walk around flailing the American flag as if it means the same thing it does when it was created.

Soon this conflict is going to catch up with us and it’s going to be a mainstream comment where people are saying “that’s not even who you are anymore” and the new (current) image of American dogshit will replace it. And nobody wants to be what America CURRENTLY is.

participant-4603, 8:27 AM, May 27

I have always had more respect for the guy who mows his lawn, fixes his yard, and keeps his home tidy than the guy who doesn’t but has a big stars and stripes hanging out front.

participant-1522, 8:29 AM, May 27

Well maybe you shouldn’t. Because the only thing that first guy is doing is increasing his property value to then pay more property taxes.

participant-4603, 8:32 AM, May 27

No, I’d rather live next to a neat and tidy home than not. The kind of mentality you’re describing is what you see in many parts of Latin America and the former Warsaw Pact. It’s people giving up or downplaying what they have, or not caring about what goes on outside their own four walls. Take a look at Switzerland, for example: they still, for the most part, keep their country clean and well-manicured. That, to me, is real patriotism.

participant-1522, 8:34 AM, May 27

Is the house really that important? Especially when you’re punished for having nice things? Or the person inside of it?

Voluntarily improving your stuff just to be taxed more for it is a self sacrificial slavery. NOTHING is worth doing more to be stolen from more and putting myself in that position to let them do it.

participant-4603, 8:42 AM, May 27

That’s a terrible way of living. If that’s the case, then why bother working? Why not try getting public assistance?

participant-1522, 8:57 AM, May 27

Well you have to work. To get things you need to keep existing. But why do more than the bare minimum? If working more means you’re just going to be stolen from more?

Wasn’t that the whole point of Atlas shrugged? With John galt the genius basically becoming a janitor.

participant-4603, 9:02 AM, May 27

You’re completely correct and it does make a lot of sense if an individual chooses to go on strike as well. John Galt is or was a fictional character. It strikes me that this is a defeatist attitude and mindset. I do understand that in a tyrannical structure it may be worthwhile to strike or even a duty not to comply. But what about exit, what about going to a place where you can eke out a little more freedom?

participant-1522, 9:06 AM, May 27

Well if that place existed then sure. But it doesn’t.

participant-4603, 9:30 AM, May 27

They say perfect is the enemy of good, my friend, and so it’s not about finding that perfect place, but a better place.

There are many parts of the world that are, for example, a lot more tax-neutral. The trouble is that there are few places where you have both economic and social freedoms, not that I like to disaggregate the two.

participant-3927, 12:36 PM, May 27

US is not going to recover. In Roman Republic the fall started with Grachi brothers and took 120 years. US has been moving into statism just about the same time.

participant-3927, 1:24 PM, May 27

Property tax is the least of my problems. Besides paying for neighborhood school where my child doesn’t go, I am paying for the region being civilized. So the net amount could be less, but it makes sense conceptually and I will be paying something similar under capitalism too. An analogy, I pay for a domain name to host my website, and fees to accept money on iOS.

participant-3927, 1:26 PM, May 27

It’s the federal income tax that’s the problem, and no Texas standoff is going to avoid it.

participant-4603, 2:50 PM, May 27

You’re making me think, as you almost always do. I’m thinking, in recorded history, what are some examples of countries that have come back? Israel is an obvious example. Poland has resurfaced periodically, as has Armenia, but as far as empires are concerned, I mean, what do we have?

I suppose there were several different British Empires, French Empires. Rome went through a few different incarnations, so I guess it can happen, and it does happen, but it doesn’t always look or feel the same. But, yeah, it does seem to me that, for the most part, empires don’t come back, at least not in the same form.

participant-1522, 2:52 PM, May 27

Now that sounds like a defeatist attitude. Let’s not demand PERFECT! Let’s just get “better”. Perfect is too high a bar! Let’s just have “good” be good enough.

participant-4603, 2:57 PM, May 27

No, not at all, and not in the least. It’s the exact opposite. It’s saying, “Sure, I’ll take 99% of what I’m asking for to at least get that 99% instead of being a big fat loser at 0%, waiting for the 100% to come in one swoop because I’m an uncompromising person, I mean principled because, yeah, that’s just so principled.”

There’s nothing wrong with going from a bad restaurant to a better restaurant because the best restaurant in town isn’t yet open. Nothing wrong with that at all.

Not to mention, perfection just simply doesn’t exist, at least not on this planet. Not that we shouldn’t strive for it, and not that we should ever be satisfied with what we have, and I’m using the term “we” very loosely.

participant-1522, 2:58 PM, May 27

I think there probably is no turning back. 40 trillion debt is too high and it’s pretty much at the point of no return. But I do think you can give it the best possible chance of bouncing back AFTER collapse. A renaissance. And I think Texas is the best possible chance of that not only for its character but simply for the fact it owns all the oil in the country and you can’t fight a civil war without oil.

Say you give up. Go to Puerto Rico or something. Which is the very best next alternative. You’re giving up the US mainland continent with no fighting chance of freedom. Besides the fact Puerto Rico being an island is the easiest thing to counter by just sinking every ship that leaves with resources even if it did say back Florida or Texas in a fight.

participant-1522, 3:08 PM, May 27

I understand property taxes aren’t a big deal. But it is the easiest to attack and takes the least amount of people. And has a CASCADING effect. Cause if you can show one place to do it then all the other places have to say “this is possible”. All across the country.

And on a personal level don’t you want to be able to build the best house you can ever imagine and not ever have to think “am I going to get a higher bill for this?” Simply because you want to live better? I know I do and I purposely sold my house just to avoid it because it’s disgustingly immoral that I pay more because i have a better house.

participant-1522, 3:12 PM, May 27

Probably because the INDIVIDUALS who started them were the lynch pin making them great. they were the ones holding the Howard Roark fire and once they died the drive died with them.

Like it’s pretty clear the ambitious one for Rome was Julius Caesar. After he died it seems to have fizzled out. France had napoleon. British king Henry. But I think if you have MANY people holding their ideas then it is entirely possible. Not just a single man making it all work.

participant-3927, 3:13 PM, May 27

Julius was no hero

participant-1522, 3:16 PM, May 27

Never said he was. But he was the one who made the whole thing into the empire it was. HE. Had the EGO. And the ideas to make it happen.

He was the one coming up with ideas like rewarding soldiers with statues for taking extraordinary risk. Which is a basically meaningless thing to do. But yet he knew that’s how you get people to do what he wanted.

Napoleon said the same thing. He said “it’s amazing what a person will do to get a tiny little ribbon reward”.

All these things were tied up in one man. Never before has it been multiple people or a whole society to make it happen. I think America is really the first for that. Multiple founding fathers. And the spirit of individual people after them to keep it going

participant-4603, 3:24 PM, May 27

You’re making an interesting point. When one conjures up images of Julius Caesar, Alexander the Great, Napoleon Bonaparte, it’s difficult to separate those men from ego, ambition, desire, never being satiated, and, most of all, being incredibly driven. These were high-agency, high-performance individuals. Perhaps their imprint, or footprint, or shadow, has only grown as the centuries have rolled by, and we tend to lionise, idealise, or romanticise such figures.

I wonder if they were also as gargantuan as we make them out to be back in their day. I think, to a large extent, yes. It’s just that it seems history has a way of embellishing the exploits of such alphas.

But a separate question is, are such figures role models? Is it all about conquest and Empire at the end of the day?

participant-1522, 3:26 PM, May 27

@participant-3927 another thing about the property tax. Local governments are basically the exact same thing as the whole country just a smaller little snapshot. And if you get rid of all sources of forced funding and make the donation based system happen one has to ask. “Why can’t this happen at the bigger level for the same thing”? Just change property tax for income tax and it’s the same. If they can make this small little town work without coercion. Which then it hopefully builds into a city. Why can’t it work for just the next step of being multiple cities put together to make a country?.

Got to get the ball rolling somewhere and that’s the place to do it. And the easiest.

participant-3927, 3:27 PM, May 27

This is a wrong view of ego. Conquerers have no ego

participant-3927, 3:27 PM, May 27

Marius had ego

participant-3927, 3:28 PM, May 27

And Sulla

participant-3927, 3:28 PM, May 27

Because they defended the state

participant-1522, 3:30 PM, May 27

Well look at America. America has so MANY gigantic characters. Basically subdividing that Julius spark into multiple people who carry the same staff of fire and drive. George Washington. Ulysses s. grant. Eisenhower. MacArthur. All these people are the ego fire that refused to die at one man and kept it going in MULTIPLE men.

participant-4233, 3:31 PM, May 27

He tried to be a Rex Augustus did it What is a hero? Julius won many engagements

participant-1522, 3:31 PM, May 27

Well they had self drive then. And for the philosophic information they had at the time I’m sure it would be classified as ego. Self driven men with desire

participant-4233, 3:32 PM, May 27

Not Marcus Aurelius

participant-3927, 3:33 PM, May 27

Everyone in Rome was self driven, the measure of success was how many battles you won. It was a military society first, everything else second. And the pattern was: conquer preemptively.

participant-3927, 3:34 PM, May 27

The only exception being the Scipious, Marius and Sulla, who defended reactively the state.

participant-3927, 3:35 PM, May 27

Now, who asked Julius to conquer Gaul and Britain ? His legions killed 1 million men.

participant-3927, 3:35 PM, May 27

And then he attacked his own country, usurping control.

participant-3927, 3:36 PM, May 27

While, before his military career he seduced married women.

participant-3927, 3:36 PM, May 27

Is that a man of ego ?

participant-1522, 3:38 PM, May 27

But who made it that way? Who was the starting head that made that the path? Julius did. He set the standard. He made the reward system to make that the behavior.

It’s like any company. The whole influence starts at the top. The ceo hire the manager below him. Which that manager hires a person below him. And then he hires a worker. All based on the starting ideal of the ceo who should have had his intentions flowed down through that first manager he hired.

Which is why HR is the most dangerous part of a company. Because it’s no longer the ceo deciding who gets into the company effecting its culture. But Karen who is deciding who is let in. Influencing the culture from the bottom up

participant-3927, 3:39 PM, May 27

On top of this, Julius represented the mob element (democracy) which conveniently turned into dictatorship, as Ayn Rand explained: democracy and dictatorship are two sides of the same coin.

participant-1522, 3:43 PM, May 27

That does sound like a man of ego. Not a moral one. But it does seem like he had the drive to go after what he wanted.

Going after married women was no small thing in those days. I’m sure you were killed. So to have the courage to do that in spite does say something.

Not saying it was right but clearly it does say something about an individual who does chooses to break that.

participant-3927, 3:45 PM, May 27

Read in Atlas Shrugged the speech by Francisco about the psychology of a playboy.

participant-1522, 3:47 PM, May 27

You’re dropping a very important part here. He didn’t have the ideas we have today. There was basically nothing. So it’s easy to call him the villain when there were no ideas of good. But it’s pretty clear he had impossible amounts of self drive and desire.

participant-3927, 3:51 PM, May 27

I agree that he had talent.

participant-3927, 3:53 PM, May 27

We need people with your and Greg’s energy, the young energy, to be part of the new country project. I’m already mellowing down, at my 47.

participant-3927, 3:54 PM, May 27

By working on other projects, which (in my view) won’t deliver a long lasting freedom, you are going to end up in my age, and the cycle will repeat.

participant-3927, 3:55 PM, May 27

Next month I am going to Vienna to meet with separatists

participant-1522, 3:55 PM, May 27

Sounds like a spiritual issue not a physical one. Energy is chosen not just how your body feels.

participant-3927, 3:56 PM, May 27

And we have unusually talented people in this channel.

participant-3927, 3:57 PM, May 27

I’m calling on all of you to work on the hardest problem, that no one is working on, that will change the world in bigger ways than the appearance of France after Julius conquered Gaul.

participant-1522, 3:58 PM, May 27

No doubt. Cause it doesn’t seem like anyone is doing much to end the cycle.

Even ARI with its 32 million dollar budget is basically a massive failure and achieved nothing.

participant-3927, 4:01 PM, May 27

ARI told me that it won’t support a political initiative, that it’s only educational.

participant-1522, 4:02 PM, May 27

What’d you ask them? When was this

participant-3927, 4:03 PM, May 27

Reading Golda Meir’s journal, I can see that Palestine settlement in the 20s and 30s was driven exactly by that kind of young idealistic energy, like startups now.

participant-3927, 4:04 PM, May 27

As I recall, I asked if I could use their name as my signature, so that I have legitimacy.

participant-1522, 4:10 PM, May 27

Sounds about what I would expect.

participant-3927, 4:14 PM, May 27

@participant-4603 this is the one thing I agree with your naming of “Startup States” — a new state needs the same kind of excitement and drive that happens in a tech startup.

participant-1522, 4:20 PM, May 27

And this reason given. Of being “educational” and not “political”. Gives me the idea they want to sit around and do nothing and wait for “somebody else” to materialize out of thin air and make things happen for them.

I mean really. How do you have a philosophy which a major factor of it is about policy and not want to be political. It’s impossible. Which amounts to running around saying a bunch of words. Being the guy saying “this is such a great idea but I’m not going to do it myself. You guys should do it!”.

participant-3927, 4:37 PM, May 27

I have no issue with ARI, I have an issue with OCON attendees wasting money going there while this money could be used for the new country project. I estimate that the cost to attend OCON is about $5000, if including loss of work days.

participant-3927, 4:40 PM, May 27

I suggested that some of this money can be used to put Yaron Brook or another speaker to Bill Maher show.

participant-1522, 4:41 PM, May 27

Ocon is the biggest waste of fucking money and serves nothing more than to ego stroke those intellectuals by sitting on stage and seeing people listen to them. There’s literally no reason for this as anything they say can be said online. And doesn’t justify the cost at all especially for what I guess is MEAGER if any gains. The only people going there aren’t new people it’s people who are already in the pool

The only thing ARI does I agree with is the essay contest which pays college people 50k or something for disputing rands books. This is literally the only stroke of genius and worth the money cause you get a ton of people who have to engage with the material and you only have to pay one of those people. That’s value. That’s effective money use

participant-3927, 4:41 PM, May 27

And yes, someone does need to materialize to take action. Alex Epstein is a good example.

participant-4603, 4:42 PM, May 27

What do you make of Nathan Hale?

participant-3927, 4:43 PM, May 27

Also, sending books to school. Also, YouTube and articles published. It all costs money.

participant-4603, 4:43 PM, May 27

I wonder if he would have been the publisher of the Banner. If the printing press existed back then.

participant-3927, 4:45 PM, May 27

Most successful people that can be respected today are Wynands.

participant-4603, 4:45 PM, May 27

That’s what different libertarian organisations used to tell me in the late 90s and early 2000s. I never looked back.

participant-1522, 4:47 PM, May 27

I don’t think so. I actually consider Alex an example of ARI’s failure. I mean really all this money your getting and the best thing you have to show for it is a guy who writes a book about how fossil fuels make me able to live above the level of a caveman? Really? Millions of dollars and you’ve got one guy to come out of it and that’s what he’s got? Give me a break

participant-1522, 4:48 PM, May 27

Don’t know him

participant-4603, 4:49 PM, May 27

Thank you. It’s more than that, though; it’s very much using the ethos, the mentality. You’re totally right: the excitement of startups to use capitalism to help create more capitalism. That’s something that I’ve always found so completely, utterly lacking in this ecosystem, space, movement, industry, whatever you want to call it.

I mean, what good is it to quote great philosophers and economists and thinkers but not try and put some of those ideas into practice? And a lot of it also was, in part, thinking back to how Israel is referred to as the Startup Nation; that’s really what I was thinking at the time, plus I like alliterative names.

participant-4603, 4:49 PM, May 27

An early patriot. I’m personally not a fan of martyrdom. But his famous last words make a man think.

participant-1522, 4:49 PM, May 27

I suppose that aswell. But I doubt the effectiveness of this. Are they even reading them? How much? How are they being exposed? It’s basically throwing money out there hoping something will happen. Nevermind the fact you give something for free and people normally value it less than if they had to give something up to get it.

participant-3927, 4:50 PM, May 27

It’s called a startup nation because of tech innovations since the 80s

participant-3927, 4:52 PM, May 27

In any case, I argue that a new country project will have a side effect to advertise objectivism too.

participant-4603, 4:55 PM, May 27

Oh for sure no doubt and the high concentration of startups that come from Israel particularly in the tech sector and then make their way on to the likes of NASDAQ.

I’m well aware of the story. It’s also a bit of a double entendre because of Israel coming back to life in 48, very much in part through scrappy bootstrapping similar to that process many startups go through, minus the bullets flying, but I do think it’s that kind of ambition and drive as well as motivation that can propel founders and builders to the deploy to launch new countries.

participant-3927, 4:56 PM, May 27

I don’t want to waste time critiquing ARI, I consider it an ally. I just don’t spend money to go to OCONs. I am a member of HBL , money well spent. $25 per month for as much objectivist debate one can handle.

participant-1522, 4:58 PM, May 27

Hbl?

participant-3927, 4:58 PM, May 27

I’m in Vienna June 13 - June 19 inclusive. If you want to meet me in person, we can try to arrange something. If there is anyone whom I can meet while there, let me know.

participant-3927, 4:58 PM, May 27

HBLetter.com

participant-1522, 5:01 PM, May 27

What’s in Vienna?

participant-3927, 5:10 PM, May 27

This: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_Nations_of_Post-Russia_Forum

participant-3927, 5:18 PM, May 27

There are 50 separatists regions in Russia

participant-1522, 5:20 PM, May 27

Not sure I see the point, purpose or potential of this

participant-3927, 5:31 PM, May 27

The point is that new countries appeared historically in balkanization process. This answers the problem of how to get sovereignty.

participant-1522, 5:47 PM, May 27

And you think this is worth traveling half way across the world for? Seems like something that could be done online

participant-3927, 6:17 PM, May 27

I already have an initial intro. But with Russians it has to break ice with in person meeting

participant-1522, 6:28 PM, May 27

So what is their means of doing this exactly? I can’t exactly think that Putin is going to let his glorious empire just disintegrate with a vote. Disrupting his holy Russian empire

participant-3927, 6:48 PM, May 27

Well, I did an interview with one of the participants. You can translate to English the transcript and see for yourself
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