participant-6456, 12:15 PM, August 5
Liberpulco.com and Floatingman.ll.land coming up next
participant-1522, 1:56 PM, August 7
Seems like a scam to get investment money
participant-3927, 2:03 PM, August 7
No, the problem is that it is anarchist: “competing communities.”
participant-3488, 3:22 PM, August 8
I am glad that as a non-American I don’t need to vote, because both sides are equally bad. Compare with situation in the 1950s: in 1952 and 1956 it was Eisenhower vs. Stevenson at the presidential election, about which Ayn Rand said:
“you can vote only so long as you think a given candidate has more virtues than flaws. But when it come to two candidates, and you regard both of them as evil, then there is no lesser evil. You just don’t vote. For instance, I abstained in 1952 and 1956. I did not vote for Eisenhower and I couldn’t vote for Stevenson. It’s not wrong, not to vote. In spite of all the things you hear to the contrary, not voting, particularly by people who understand the issues, is also a form of voting.
[Source: Ayn Rand during Q&A session of Leonard Peikoff course “The Philosophy of Objectivism” (1976), lecture #6, at 142 mins.]
But if there’s no point to vote, what to do? Ayn Rand advocated to spread ideas and still hopefully turn the country around. I agrue is that it’s time to redirect our energies elsewhere. Instead of expending efforts on the clownade, let’s spend the energy on starting anew. Creating a new country needs your energy and time. Don’t squander it on American politics. Don’t waste time listenenig to the news, to see what next crazy thing these fools say. Better help the Anthemism initiative.
participant-1522, 12:57 AM, August 9
So since you’ve been bringing up Israel a lot I’d assume you’d know a bit about it. But how did they get the land in the beginning? Did they buy it? Or how did it come to be before 1948 when they made the country or whenever they did it
participant-4603, 1:13 AM, August 9
There were definitely land purchases..
participant-1522, 1:47 AM, August 9
Who’d they buy it from? Was it coerced or government involved?
participant-3927, 2:05 AM, August 9
It was bought at 10 times the market price. The locals jacked up the prices to sell marsh land to Jews. A lot of Jews caught malaria while drying the land.
participant-3927, 2:06 AM, August 9
Also, often the owner Arabs actually lived in Lebanon, while locals arabs were renters.
participant-1522, 2:08 AM, August 9
Alright so they bought the land. What country was this under original? The ottomans? Or the British? Or was Palestine there first?
participant-3927, 2:09 AM, August 9
The ottomans and the British mandate later. Palestine is the name of the region. The owners though were not the government but private persons, citizens. Land was bought from them.
participant-3927, 2:10 AM, August 9
The land was bought not by individual Jews, but by a Jewish national fund.
participant-3927, 2:11 AM, August 9
Then the Jews in turn bought it from the fund. It’s not always like that, but often. Today this fund still exists and owns a lot of land in Israel
participant-3927, 2:12 AM, August 9
Also now this fund is government owned, but it was a private enterprise back then. It was Herzl who created the fund, by founding a new bank.
participant-3927, 2:14 AM, August 9
Actually, the ottomans refused to allow Jews to move en mass. Purchases increased only after British won.
participant-3927, 2:16 AM, August 9
Herzl was a journalist who has a dream at 36 years old. Everything that he did , he did in 8 years. He died at 44 years old.
participant-3927, 2:17 AM, August 9
He met with the Ottoman Sultan six times, offering the sultan money to save the empire from bankruptcy , in exchange for Jews to immigrate to Palestine in large numbers. The Sultan offered another territory of his empire, but refused Palestine.
participant-3927, 2:21 AM, August 9
During the ottoman period, there were 60,000 Jews living in Palestine, these were the orthodox who came to get old and die. It was a passive society.
participant-3927, 2:23 AM, August 9
The pioneers (young , secular and socialist) came in the beginning of 20th century. By 1914 there were 200,000 Jews in Palestine and 600,000 Arabs.
participant-3927, 2:24 AM, August 9
These numbers are from memory, from reading Weizmann’s memoirs.
participant-3927, 2:30 AM, August 9
Even in Herzl’s time there were already Jewish towns. By 1920s, when Golda Meir immigrated to Israel, Tel Aviv was already a city where majority of the Jews lived, struggling to make ends meet. There was not enough food, or work , to absorb the influx of the immigration. Important,
Golda came from Milwaukee, where her parents were already middle class (originally they came to US dirt poor). But in Israel they were poor again, and they did it for patriotic reasons.
participant-4603, 3:22 AM, August 9
Such a great successful example.
participant-4603, 3:22 AM, August 9
I didn’t know that, I really didn’t. It doesn’t surprise me, though.
participant-1522, 3:25 AM, August 9
And wasn’t it like the day after Israel was made they were put into war? I can’t remember the year maybe 1948 or something
participant-3927, 3:51 AM, August 9
No, first there was a civil war
participant-3927, 3:52 AM, August 9
arabs agaist the jews in palestine. It was a year of fighting, at the end of which israel declared independence. The next day it was attacked by surrounding countries, all at once.